Here's the summary on the "Proposition 8" case from the most overturned federal appeals court. Let's take a look:
It is also incorrect that having different words for different things means one thing is inferior to the other.
At least this does not extend to other states.
On to a full 9th Circuit panel, or SCOTUS? The Amendment supporters want SCOTUS. How long will that take? Would Obama getting a second term have an impact on this case?
The panel majority held that by using their initiative power to target a minority group and withdraw a right that it possessed, without a legitimate reason for doing so, the People of California violated the Equal Protection Clause.How was a minority group targeted when the law applies to voluntary associations or behavior and applies to all?
Proposition 8’s only effect was to take away that important and legally significant designation of “marriage,” previously recognized by the California Supreme Court, while leaving in place all of its incidents.The California Supreme Court subsequently affirmed the amendment. Why choose their earlier decision but not their more recent one?
The panel majority determined that in taking away the designation of “marriage,” while leaving in place all the substantive rights and responsibilities of same-sex partners, Proposition 8 could not have reasonably been enacted to promote childrearing by biological parents, to encourage responsible procreation, to proceed with caution in social change, to protect religious liberty, or to control the education of schoolchildren.The Trojan Horse appears! So without California's domestic partnerships law they would have not been able to use that argument. Maybe they would have found another, but let this be a lesson to all states considering domestic partnerships or civil unions that will be treated like marriage. It is better to keep at least some legal attachments out of the mix.
The panel majority concluded that Proposition 8 served no purpose, and had no effect, other than to lessen the status and human dignity of gays and lesbians in California, and to officially reclassify their relationship and families as inferior to those of opposite-sex couples.No purpose or effect? As if all of the marriage customs and laws worldwide for all of history, that for all of their nuances required both a groom and a bride, were nothing more than a conspiracy to stick it to homosexual people in twenty-first century California? The Amendment did not reclassify anyone's relationships. The Amendment was headed to the ballot before the state court jumped the gun. The brideless or groomless pairings issued state licenses in the time before the bride+groom requirement was reinstated (though there never should have been a lapse) keep their licenses as long as they want.
It is also incorrect that having different words for different things means one thing is inferior to the other.
The panel majority determined that it need not and did not consider whether same-sex couples have a fundamental right to marry, or whether states that fail to afford the right to marry to gays and lesbians must do so.If they don't have a fundamental right to a state "marriage" license, then how could the court intervene in the internal government of a state in this matter? A right was not being violated.
At least this does not extend to other states.
The panel held that proponents of Proposition 8 had standing to bring this appeal on behalf of the state.That is important for California's direct democracy, though obviously courts can still invent excuses to overrule the legitimate process arriving at Constitutionally-sound law.
The panel accepted the determination of the California Supreme Court that the official proponents of an initiative have the authority to assert the State’s interest in defending the constitutionality of that initiative, wherethe state officials who would ordinarily assume that responsibility choose not to do so.In the future, what the state officials will do is defend the propositions they don’t like, but deliberately botch the defense.
The panel affirmed the denial of the motion by the proponents of Proposition 8 to vacate the judgment entered by former Chief Judge Walker, on the basis of his purported interest in being allowed to marry his same-sex partner. The panel held that Chief Judge Ware did not abuse his discretion by finding that Chief Judge Walker was not obligated to recuse himself on the basis that he could be affected by the outcome of the proceeding.So let's review. The "right" to a marriage license without a bride is vitally important to gay men, and yet it couldn't have possibly biased a long-partnered gay man in his decision on the case. Riiiiight.
Judge N.R. Smith concurred in part and dissented in part from the majority opinion. Judge Smith agreed with the majority’s analysis that proponents had standing to bring this appeal and that the motion to vacate the judgment should be denied. Judge Smith dissented from the majority’s analysis regarding the constitutionality of Proposition 8. He wrote that he was not convinced that Proposition 8’s withdrawal from same-sex couples of the right to access the designation of marriage was not rationally related to furthering the interests of promoting responsible procreation and optimal parenting.Well, good for Judge N.R. Smith for getting it mostly right.
On to a full 9th Circuit panel, or SCOTUS? The Amendment supporters want SCOTUS. How long will that take? Would Obama getting a second term have an impact on this case?
Chief Judge Walker biased?
ReplyDeleteDissenting Judge N.R. Smith, Republican Mormom, not biased?
Jezze,
ReplyDeleteChief Judge Walker biased?
Had to be ruled against three times during trial by a higher court (including the Supreme Court), and then turned his back on the promises to the Surpreme Court? Check.
Disregarded precedent to the case in his decision? Check.
Created a Kangaroo court of who he would and wouldn't listen to? Check.
Biased? Check.
Made a decision that was completely disregarded and abandoned by the 9th circuit? Check.
On a similar note, what did Judge NR Smith do that was suspicious?
Judge Smith apparently got his paper work mixed up and ruled on the wrong case! Prop 8 stripped the right to marry from gays and lesbians, and nothing more (to quote from the actual campaign documentation and findings of fact). Prop 8 was not about adoption, surrogacy or use of reproductive technologies by gays and lesbians. Prop 8 had nothing to do with gays and lesbians optimal parenting whatsoever. Its like Judge Smith had a flat tire and decided the best way to fix it was to change his motor oil with a better quality. Made no sense. Moreover, even if it was about optimal parenting, why not restrict spousal abusers or child molesters from the ability to civil marry? More effective no? Addresses the issue at hand no? Gays and lesbians have before Prop 8 been able have families, why not address the actual issue not some side related nonsense that does nothing to address optimal parenting?
ReplyDeleteProp 8 stripped the right to marry from gays and lesbians, and nothing more
DeleteActually the ruling had even less to do with marriage than that. It specifically claimed it wasn't about marriage at all, and ignored Walker's ruling almost entirely.
That is such obvious gaming that not even people supportive people of neutering marriage are buying it (as noted in my subsequent posts).
It said (essentially) that it was more about gays getting an apartment (Romer v Evans) than same-sex marriage (Baker v Nelson).
All Smith did was agree with Walker that it really was about same-sex marriage, and that means it is under the guidance of Baker v Nelson (which was Walker's embarrassment to not even acknowledge).
"Moreover, even if it was about optimal parenting, why not restrict spousal abusers or child molesters from the ability to civil marry?"
ReplyDeleteNot a bad idea! I know where I live registered sex offenders can't live with their own biological children.
Renee, good point, perhaps there needs to be optimal parenting restrictions in order to obtain a civil marriage license. Perhaps for a really good law it should be comprehensive and not target only gays and lesbians.
ReplyDeleteSmith specially said his decision was based on a rational basis in responsible procreation and optimal parenting. Note that In the ruling, Smith did not say that he essentially agreed with Walker that it was about same-sex marriage.
Even Prop 8's voter instruction booklet and court findings of fact said that Prop 8 will take the right to marry from gays and lesbians, and NOTHING more. In California, gays and lesbians already have parental rights, marital rights, obligations and benefits under domestic partnership law.
If we agree that Prop 8 did nothing more than remove the right for gays and lesbians to marry, and nothing more, Judge Smith's optimal parenting rationale is off subject, and off case, because it's not grounded in reality of the actual effect of Prop 8. Prop 8 was not about parental rights, marital rights and marital obligations already conferred on California same-sex couples in domestic partnerships.
Judge Smith did not suggest his decision was based on the guidance of Baker v Nelson, which was about granting a right, not about taking them away as in Romer v. Evans (which actually is the basis for the majority opinion). If we were go by what he actually wrote. Baker v Nelson would have value in a jurisdiction where there was never SSM for same-sex couples.
Smith did not say that he essentially agreed with Walker that it was about same-sex marriage.
ReplyDeleteI already said they didn't completely agree. Both disagreed with Reinhardt on that fact (or rather Reinhardt disagreed with Walker, and Smith disagreed with Reinhardt.)
They all had different reasons for agreeing (perhaps what you are dismissing as "essentially" the argument. The point is they both disagreed with Reinhardt on that very point, even if for different reasons.
For Smith, the disagreement was how it was marginalized, even to dismissing Baker in a footnote.
For Walker his ruling was almost entirely ignored in order for Reinhardt to present his specialized case.
Prop 8's voter instruction booklet and court findings of fact said that Prop 8 will take the right to marry from gays and lesbians, and NOTHING more
The case over the wording in the Prop 8 booklet notes that it is not expected to be the sole source of information and purpose on proposition.
And Walker's ignoring the importance of the rational basis of promoting responsible procreation is as egregious as Reinhardt's.
They don't realize (or don't care) that there are real human rights they are asking to go unrecognized in order to promote a group's status.
Prop 8 did nothing more than remove the right for gays and lesbians to marry
False. Prop 8 set to affirm (though by the time it was brought to ballot it was to re-affirm) that there is no conflict between equal protection and the rational basis of responsible procreation.
the actual effect of Prop 8. Prop 8 was not about parental rights
Even the pro-ssm Eugene Volokh and Orin Kerr at Volokh conspiracy took exception to this point. Even if realistically no change was to occur now, they should be open as a court to consider that it could affirm it in the future. It should be open that if such a case came up and such rights needed to be affirmed, would it be able to rightly look at the rational basis of marriage to provide support for such rights?
In otherwords, even if the courts did not see a threat now, they should be reasonable enough to even just try to see what precedent their actions will set. That is the very basis of judicial restraint and propriety.
Judge Smith did not suggest his decision was based on the guidance of Baker v Nelson
I assure you, whatever esoteric or overly technical difference between your statement and the fact that Judge Smith felt Baker v Nelson should provide guidance in the Perry v Brown case is immaterial to me.