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Wednesday, March 17, 2010

Washington Post's article on Gays’ mixed feelings about marriage

The Washington Post reports on the reluctance of some gay couples to get married, even though it is now legal. On the same day, the Post reports on how the new law recognizing same sex marriage has been costly to others in the District of Columbia, including Catholic Charities, and the people they serve.

So given these costs, and the divisiveness surrounding same sex marriage, don’t you think the gay community, and the Post could have the decency to keep these doubts out of the front and center of the public eye? I mean, we have been given to believe that the self-respect of every gay man and lesbian woman was on the line in the legalization of same sex marriage. We’ve been led to believe that the burdens on same sex couples are simply not to be borne, and beyond the imagining of any heterosexual couple. And now that same sex couples have the right to marry, why aren’t they rushing to the altar?

Here are some of the reasons, in their own words:

"Some say that although they committed to their partners long ago in their hearts, they oppose the idea of marriage as an institution — especially because it is one that so often collapses."

“I’m not against gay marriage in any way, shape or form, but having been married before, I think you legitimately have concerns about the failure of marriage in general for the majority of people,” said Nash Blain, 43, a lawyer in Harpers Ferry, W.Va., who was married to a man for eight years before she and Marla Seymour, 57, a bookseller, got together 13 years ago."

Blain said she can think of few happy marriages, and she still chafes at the memory of receiving letters addressed to “Mr. and Mrs.” followed by her husband’s name. “I think it’s very hard not to have some diminishment of each person occur.”

Ms Blain, didn’t you know these potential pitfalls of marriage before the City Council rammed same sex marriage through, over the objections of many in the community? Were you there to tell them it wasn’t really worth that much to you that your neighbors should be forced to conform to the City Council’s new definition of marriage? (BTW: what does a person like MsBlain, who used to straight before she was gay, do to the claim that sexual orientation is a fixed and immutable, legally recognizable and definable trait?)

Other couples in successful long-term relationships might balk at marrying because they don’t want to upset their balance, said Mark Forrest, a licensed social worker in Boston, where same-sex marriage has been legal since 2004. “They may have gotten into a routine with each other and never expected this to come up, and it may be too disturbing” to introduce a new dynamic.

So disturbing. So sad. The Archdiocese of Washington had to redefine their spousal health benefits to accomodate the District’s new invented definition of spouse. All for people who can’t handle a “new dynamic.”

"As with heterosexual couples, the reasons for one same-sex partner balking are myriad. Some simply aren’t ready to commit; others refuse to consider marrying until the right is extended nationwide and includes federal benefits."

So, after ramming same sex marriage through the DC City Council, the radicals are still not satisfied: nothing but the national same sex marriage and the federal benefits of marriage is sufficient to induce them to take advantage of the institution they have gone to such trouble to gut for everyone else.

“It’s so personally revolting to me,” said Rhodes, 36, who has been in a committed relationship with a man for 13 years.

“I’d rather see marriage abolished than see me married,” he said as he ate lunch in a Columbia Heights cafe with his partner, Bray Creech. “The materialism of it, what I perceive as kind of a narcissism. Like all the money and decoration. . . . I have no interest in having a performance, which to me is what weddings are.”

Interesting comment. Is the abolition of marriage the real goal? Some of us have suspected so for some time.

“There’s a whole segment of the [gay] community for whom the marriage equality bit seems way too heteronormative,” mimicking conventional heterosexual practices, said Suzanne Scott, director of women and gender studies at George Mason University. “Some would even argue that marriage is an outdated norm based on archaic rules.”

Why do they want to participate so badly in an outmoded institution?

"Some of the considerations are practical. Creech, an accountant, who shares a home and dogs with Rhodes in Adams Morgan, said that after years of arguing (with his partner), he has largely given up on his dream of a wedding. Still, “my biggest fear is the hospital thing — that he would be in the hospital hurt, and I wouldn’t be able to see him. That terrifies me.”

Of course, in many states, including CA for sure, the hospital visitation problem has been solved for years through the Domestic Partnership laws. If you don’t get married, don’t form a domestic partnership, you can’t very well be mad at society for not taking you seriously when you demand hospital visitation rights, and the right to make medical decisions (which are two different things, I realize.)

Given the unending stream of press declaring the urgent human need for defining gender out of marriage, these are trivial reasons to not get married. These divisions have been present in the gay community all along. Only now that the Sex Radicals have acheived the objective of redefining marriage in the District of Columbia, and imposed costs on other people, will these fissures in the gay community be exposed to the light of day.

It is no wonder that the wider community has lost its stomach for accomodating the gay community.

Thanks to the Ruth Insitute for this Post

[UPDATE] Get Religion has a great article on the Lop-sided WaPo coverage of same-sex "marriage" in D.C.

[UPDATE #2] FIRST-PERSON: Gay marriage's 'open secret' - A link to an older story with a fresh take about infedelity in gay realtionships & there frequency and acceptance

14 comments,:

  1. Is it a case of "be careful what you wish for"?

    It is definitely evidence of a diversity of thought withing the "LGBTQQA" community, though I'm sure some who do not want to get a marriage license themselves still wanted the political victory for "their team".

    But we should not neglect all of the "conservative" arguments that were made for SSM. Wherever marriage is neutered, "marriage and family" types who encourage things like saving sex for marriage, fidelity within marriage, and staying together once married should put the same kind of pressures and ecouragements on their homosexual friends as they do their heterosexual friends:

    "So when are you going to settle down and get married?"

    "No daughter of mine is going to shack up!"

    "So when are you two married folks going to have kids?"

    "I won't be friends with someone who cheats on their spouse. If their spouse knows about it and approves, then I won't associate with the spouse, either."

    "I expect you to wait until marriage to have sex."

    Ah, yes, the fun of it all.

    No doubt the partners with the higher incomes are learning the risks to that income posed should the marriage end? Will courts enforce alimony for SSM-divorces the same way they have for bride-groom divorces? They'd better - if we're striving for equality and all.

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  2. You seem to be taking individual responses to same-sex marriage and somehow making these the basis for an argument that same-sex marriage shouldn't exist. That doesn't make sense. There are plenty of straight people who don't want to get married, who have serious doubts about marriage as an institution, etc., and yet no one uses their doubts and fears to try to overturn straight marriage.

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  3. Emma, could you give us an example of a statement that raises "serious doubts about marriage as an institution, etc.,"

    Thanks. It is hard to say the comparison is valid without an example.

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  4. Emma

    I posted this particular article and the responses to illustrate the general understanding of the issue amoung homosexuals themselves. You may differ as an individual as to how you understand the importance of marriage, but given that this is the WaPo (a gay freindly paper)I take it to be generally represenattive of what gay "marriage" supporters think about marriage as an instiution.

    That is not the same as saying these are my arguments against redefining marriage.

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  5. Fitz,
    your post begins, "The Washington Post reports on the reluctance of some gay couples to get married . . . ." You would now like to make it seem like you took the article "to be generally representative" of the views of all "gay 'marriage' supporters." Nothing justifies such a leap. Emma's point is valid.

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  6. Miles: I dont take anything to be representative of ALL gay "marriage" supporters, so in that absolutest sense no single article or group of articles could possibly represent the views of everyone.

    However: it is not simply this single article on which I base my view on what homosexuals (in the main) think of the institution of marriage.

    Its from a variety of sources including arguments on this and other blogs that many gay people express their opinion of the institution as a whole.

    It is also from gay people in my circle of friends and others that help humanize this understanding.

    I'm afraid the cultural left as a whole dosent think much of marriage to begin with. Gay "marriage" supporters have been polluted by this sentiment and it is into this more debased sense of marriage that they have a hard time understanding why they are excluded.

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  7. So not "all," but most (if it's truly "generally representative"). And you've arrived at this conclusion based on this article, some comments left on various blogs online, and your (extensive, I'm sure) collection of gay friends. How rigorous.

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  8. You can read this very Blog, Its resource page & its various links to see how extensive are mine & others understanding of this issue.

    I'm not sure what your bona-fides are concerning these issue's but please feel free to express your personal understanding about the importance of marriage as an institution.

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  9. I'm all for marriage, Fitz. Marriage benefits couples, the children they have, and the communities in which they live. Marriage is a commitment for life, not to be entered into lightly. And if it matters to you, I've officiated at a number of weddings (all man-woman arrangements, too, you'll be happy to know).

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  10. As I've always said, if someone really understood what marriage was they'd crawl over the mojave desert to find someone of the other gender who felt the same way about marriage to get married to.

    Because it isn't possible to get the same benefits, or the meaning from the relationship, without that crucial integration and equality between both genders.

    So Miles, do you agree with those statements?

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  11. "I'm all for marriage, Fitz. Marriage benefits couples, the children they have, and the communities in which they live. Marriage is a commitment for life, not to be entered into lightly."

    Please explain - How is it a benifit to the couples? & especially how is it a benifit to "communities in which they live"?

    Ive been fighting on behalf of the instiution for years & people most often treat it a a "private" rather than a "public" good... Please explain more how communities benifit?

    For instance How have communities been hurt by marriages decline? What factors contribute to this decline? What can be done to stave this decline?

    And "the children they have" - This is a whole area in and of itself.. "they have" being crucial to establishing a child right to know & be known by his or her parent..

    We risk treating childen like consumer goods these days. The property of parents who (literally) dispose of unwanted children and think they should be able to "order them up" (IVF) whenever they want..

    Surogacy only compounds the problem, with people believing another person can be caring "their" child..like its a product that is made & not a new life that is a blessing that need be cherished..

    These issues are so widespread and implicate every human being. Marriage, childbearing, parenthood, new life...

    They are serious issue's meant for serious people...

    Under the white hot spoltlight of adult want & poltical heat they become spoiled & twisted & fraught with self interest & not self sacrifice.

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  12. Fitz,
    are you questioning that marriage benefits the couples that enter into it? Or just trying to waste my time?
    As for how communities have been hurt by marriage's decline, On Lawn contributed an entire post about it just last Tuesday.

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  13. Miles...

    If you agree with Fitz that marriage is about the man and the woman and the potential child they have together, then both his observations and mine (which mirror that purpose in marriage) fit.

    But you can't re-define ketchup to be a fresh vegetable to get the benefits of fresh vegetables. If you do not agree with that definition of marriage, then it is up to you to show benefit.

    Also, as Op-Ed noted, you also have to show that the benefits are worth the harm done to marriage if it were redefined from our understanding to yours -- if your understanding indeed doesn't match the equality of both genders being represented in each marriage.

    Okay, go ahead. We're all waiting.

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  14. Miles (asks)
    are you questioning that marriage benefits the couples that enter into it? Or just trying to waste my time?
    As for how communities have been hurt by marriage's decline, On Lawn contributed an entire post about it just last Tuesday.


    No - I'm not trying to be clever, or wasting your time... & I do concure with what OnLawn says Above though..

    Even when it comes to "how marriage benifits couples?" This becomes an open question under genderless marriage. Opposite sex marriage & same-sex "marriage" are totally different...there is no reason to simply assume that the benifits of marriage that society assumes occrue to opposite-sex couples will occrue to same-sex couples.

    Whats evewn harder to decern is what public benifit this new coupling has and why society would mnaintain an interest in this new form of coupling.

    More frustrating still is the idea that people should mary at all is actually a benifit even to that couple.

    As someone who advocated marriage well before same-sex "marriage" came about, I'm used to going through tortuious hoops to establish that people should mary in the first place..

    Your lucky to live in a moral universe were every basic assumtion is not questioned as to it's intent, motive, sincerity, public & private good and end.

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