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Thursday, March 18, 2010

Marriage Neutering in New York, New Jersey, and Old Mexico

Let's get an update, shall we? Edith Honan of Reuters tells us what is going on in New York.

A group called Fight Back New York, created with money from software entrepreneur and openly gay philanthropist Tim Gill, is pledging to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to get pro-gay marriage candidates elected to the state Senate in November's elections.

Advocates aim to bring the issue of same-sex marriage to the Senate floor as early as next year. The legislature voted three months ago to reject a similar bill.

Notice that the article uses "gay" incorrectly as there is nothing in the marriage law dealing with sexual orientation - homosexual people, like heterosexual people, can now marry someone of the opposite sex. If the law is changed, everyone, regardless of sexual orientation, can get a brideless or groomless pairing licensed as marriage. A lot of articles and commentaries make this mistake.

Five U.S. states have legalized gay marriage -- Iowa, Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Vermont -- and the District of Columbia began allowing same-sex marriages earlier this month.

But 40 other states have specific laws banning it. Voters in Maine repealed a gay marriage law recently, and the New Jersey legislature rejected a gay marriage bill.

A federal court in California is now hearing a legal challenge to the state's ban on gay marriage, known as Proposition 8, that was approved by voters in 2008.

So there's your update on where things are standing. (Oh, and most of those laws aren't "bans", either.)

[Much more after the jump.]

Maggie Gallagher, president of the National Organization for Marriage which opposes same-sex marriage, said gay rights advocates face an uphill battle.

Again, notice the language – "opposes same-sex marriage", not something like "promotes and defends marriage as uniting the sexes".

The article goes on to describe how theater groups are getting involved. Rumor has it that there are a few homosexual people in those circles, after all, and they are certainly used to dealing with fantasy.

Peggy Ackermann reports on what has been going on in New Jersey today, where activists are again asking for the state's Supreme Court to neuter marriage.

It starts out this way:

Six same-sex couples today will ask the New Jersey Supreme Court to allow gays to marry, their attorney said.
"Allow gays to marry"? They are already allowed to marry. They just haven't been able to force the people of New Jersey to neuter state marriage licensing.
The Supreme Court ruled in 2006 in Lewis vs. Harris that committed same-sex couples deserve the same rights and obligations as married people.
Why? Marriage is for something, and as such should be treated different than nonmarriage. Where is the compelling reason to treat a different kind of voluntary association the same?

Later that year, state lawmakers legalized civil unions, which were to confer all the benefits of marriage on same-sex couples without using the term "marriage."

But gay and lesbian couples and advocacy group Garden State Equality have said the civil union law has not worked and they continued to seek a law giving them the right to marry.

And what have the problems been? This...
Same-sex couples "are blocked from seeing their loved ones during medical emergencies; their state-designated status confuses medical providers, especially in times of crisis," the court papers say. "They find it harder to get medical coverage and care than do their married counterparts, as their state-imposed second-class status has encouraged employers to exclude them from coverage."
This can all be dealt with without neutering marriage. But private employers and organizations and your Aunt Edna should not be confused with state government.
Opponents maintain marriage is the union of one man and one woman, and some clergy also say legalizing same-sex marriage would impinge on religious freedom.
It isn't just clergy.
Those opposing same-sex marriage have called for the public to decide the matter in a constitutional ballot question.
And we all know why the marriage neutering advocates don't want to face that.

The state Senate voted down gay marriage in January, triggering today's return to the Supreme Court.

"In 2006, we won equality for lesbian and gay couples in New Jersey, and it's 2010 and the state has not delivered," Gorenberg said.

So if you "won equality" in 2006, then that means that you agree it is possible to have equality without neutering marriage. That means there's nothing wrong with things like California's Proposition 8, since California treats domestic partners as spouses.

Mexico City has been neutering marriage for several days now, as Tracy Wilkinson reported in the Los Angeles Times. The law also gives brideless or groomless couples adoption powers.

Judith Vazquez wore an ivory wedding dress. So did her bride.
Sorry. No groom, no bride. You're two women, not two brides.

The law was passed by the Mexico City legislature in December and applies only to the capital. It is the most far-reaching gay-rights law in Latin America and one of several measures that have put the city and its leaders at odds with the more conservative country.

"This is a historic day," presiding judge Hegel Cortes said shortly after pronouncing Vazquez and Castaneda "legitimately united in matrimony."

Does he even know the meaning of "matrimony"? Apparently not.
The federal government of President Felipe Calderon, a conservative Catholic, filed a challenge to the law last month, arguing that it violates the rights and protections of families and children. The city's legal advisor, Leticia Bonifaz, said she didn't expect a ruling for a year or more.
So, like in the U.S., it sounds like may ultimately come down to the highest court. Sounds like this isn't something done in isolation...
Under Ebrard and his left-wing party, Mexico City has enacted a number of liberal laws and programs, including the legalization of abortion, that may seem out of step with the rest of the country.
If there's anything the children of Mexico City need, it is to be adopted into a motherless home, should they survive abortion.

22 comments,:

  1. Gorenberg: "In 2006, we won equality for lesbian and gay couples in New Jersey, and it's 2010 and the state has not delivered."

    The Playful Walrus: "So if you 'won equality' in 2006, then that means that you agree it is possible to have equality without neutering marriage. That means there's nothing wrong with things like California's Proposition 8, since California treats domestic partners as spouses."

    Not so, Mr. Walrus. Read your own post.

    Ackermann: "The Supreme Court ruled in 2006 in Lewis vs. Harris that committed same-sex couples deserve the same rights and obligations as married people. . . . Later that year, state lawmakers legalized civil unions, which were to confer all the benefits of marriage on same-sex couples without using the term 'marriage.'
    "But gay and lesbian couples and advocacy group Garden State Equality have said the civil union law [enacted by lawmakers] has not worked" [i.e., met the requirements of the New Jersey Supreme Court's 2006 decision].

    The six couples now suing aren't seeking a new ruling; they are asking the Court to force the legislature to comply fully with the Court's initial ruling. Something similar happened in the famous case, Brown v. Board of Education: The U.S. Supreme Court held that schools must be integrated "with all deliberate speed." Certain states used that language as a justification for dragging their feet; ultimately, a second Supreme Court ruling was necessary to force those states to comply with the initial ruling.

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  2. If a hospital is misbehaving, that isn't the legislature's doing. The Attorney General can go after the hospital. So can lawyers in a civil lawsuit. Neutering state marriage licensing isn't required.

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  3. If the legislature has not required the hospital to act in accord with the Court's 2006 decision, the failure is with the law passed by the legislature, not the hospital.

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  4. The majority opinion in Lewis vs. Harris over-reached in its attempt to dictate treatment of nonmarriage as marriage. That was an abuse of judicial review.

    No judge is empowered to legislate his social policy preference. The judiciary is not the supreme branch of government. And no legislative nor executive officer of the state is obliged to submit to abuses of judicial review. That's the point of rule of law in our system of government.

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  5. Chairm,
    I agree that no judge is empowered to legislate his or her social policy preference. When you say that "no legislative nor executive officer of the state is obliged to submit to abuses of judicial review," it begs the question, though, "Who gets to decide whether a particular ruling is an abuse of judicial review?" The answer to that, at least until there is a fundamental breakdown of our constitutional system, is the courts. The sentiment of your post invites such a breakdown. If the Court got it wrong, the proper recourse is not to ignore the Court's decision, but to "overrule" it by amending the Constitution (like in CA).
    It's your opinion that the majority in Lewis v. Harris over-reached; there were justices on the New Jersey Supreme Court who agreed with you; they were in the minority. Live with it.

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  6. Miles,

    Didn't the court judge equal protection only in government actions? There is no private entity way to not comply with the 2006 decision.

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  7. On Lawn,
    your question has already been addressed up-thread. How are you coming with #4? It's been two weeks since you promised you'd get to it "later."

    ReplyDelete
  8. No need to divert Miles.

    Go ahead and answer. If it was "already been addressed" then a simple cut and paste is all that is needed. That is if it was addressed.

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  9. On Lawn,
    the thread is only 9 comments long, including this one. The exercise will do you some good.

    ReplyDelete
  10. the thread is only 9 comments long

    All the easier for you to address.

    Folks, I think Miles is playing games in what he detects that one of the problems in his argument ... we'll see if he can be honest about it.

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  11. As I've heard Chairm say before, "I'm not going to play fetch and carry for you," On Lawn. (He certainly has a way with words, doesn't he?) But I'll give you a hint: it was in response to something the Playful Walrus said.

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  12. As I've heard Chairm say before, "I'm not going to play fetch and carry for you," On Lawn.

    Oh, sure. You will. You and Chairm can work out your problems together.

    For now, go ahead cut and paste, because I'm sure you already went to do so and found out you didn't answer the question. So now you are bluffing.

    Go ahead, I know you haven't answered the question, but it would be fun to see if you choose out of this quandary by pasting something obviously not answering the question (proving you wrong) or to keep bluffing that you did :)

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  13. On Lawn,
    is this all you're good for? Nearly half of the comments in this thread now are about this little side discussion. Your objection was answered at 3/18/2010 06:46:00 PM. You will be waiting until hell freezes over for me to cut and paste it for you. (I'm sorry if the use of that four-letter word hurt your ears, Op-Ed. You all need to grow up.)

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  14. Your objection was answered at 3/18/2010 06:46:00 PM

    So, you must mean this one...

    Miles: > If the legislature has not required the hospital to act in accord with the Court's 2006 decision, the failure is with the law passed by the legislature, not the hospital.

    However, that doesn't answer the question -- it begs the question, "Didn't the court judge equal protection only in government actions?"

    If the court did not demand remedy beyond the government, then the legislature was not and is not compelled to do so by the 2006 ruling.

    In fact, I have not found any laws regulating visitation by hospitals for its patients at all. So why start now, when the court did not judge actions of non-government entities?

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  15. You say you "have not found any laws regulating visitation by hospitals for its patients at all." I'm curious: where have you looked? Or was that just rhetoric? What is your legal training, On Lawn? You don't think there are laws regarding who gets to make medical decisions when a spouse is incapacitated?
    Catholic agencies in D.C. canceled spousal benefits recently, rather than extend them to same-sex spouses. Evidently, private actors feel compelled to treat legally-recognized marriages alike.

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  16. Watch this shell game by Miles everyone...

    laws regulating visitation [...]

    Quickly turns into, "who gets to make medical decisions when a spouse is incapacitated?"

    But since that does involve this subject matter, I'll address that too.

    As a married person I can personally attest that being married does not give one the automatic power to make those decisions. I've been advised, and advise everyone married or not, to file an advanced directive with your care providers (including potential hospitals) as well as having such documentation on hand.

    I know in the Terry Shiavo case, that the husband represented himself not solely as the husband, but as the person who most closely knew her decision on the matter based on previous conversations. However, I honestly can't say how much impact that had on the legal decision, not having read the ruling.

    An advanced directive, if you don't have one -- get one. Married or not, get one.

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  17. I'll agree with you on the importance of having an advanced directive in place. However, you've learned that from personal experience. I'll repeat my questions:
    You say you "have not found any laws regulating visitation by hospitals for its patients at all." I'm curious: where have you looked? Or was that just rhetoric? What is your legal training, On Lawn?

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  18. I'm curious:

    All I'm saying is that your reasoning above simply begged the question. You can defend your assertion, or not.

    I'm happy to let you twist in the wind on my personal endeavors. Suffice to say you can always topple over my argument very easily -- if you only had that law that proved you right.

    While it is up to me to be confident in my sources. You can be the one to show where visitation rights are legally regulated for hospitals.

    I'm open to the fact that I could be wrong, but at this point it isn't likely. While I've done quite a bit of professional due diligence in this regard, my head start of years of research is of little value. I know my search is not exhaustive to ruling out every possibility. However, as a person needing only one contradiction your job to prove the arguments you already raised in this thread right should be much easier.

    So that is the nature of this contest. Go ahead, make my day :)

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  19. Maybe the reporter wrote that Gallagher opposes same-sex marriage because "promotes and defends marriage as uniting the sexes" sounds like a euphemism for soft porn. Besides, does Gallagher not oppose same-sex marriage?

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  20. Gallagher stands for marriage. She opposes neutering, polygamizing and otherwise changing state marriage law in a way that fundamentally changes the fabric of our society. The wording used by these kinds of articles is deliberaely meant to be negative. They could just as easily write that the advocates for change "oppose existing marriage law".

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  21. On the legal front - What is called a "patient advocacy form" is free & aailiabel online, in most librairies at at most hospitals. It gives the advocate all visitation rights and rights to make medical decisions.

    It actually is SOP for even legally married spouses to get a sign one because they give broader rights than what comes with marriage.

    The hospital visitation myth is a canard It is used specificaly for its emotional appeal; not because it is of any practical/legal consequence.

    Everyone who has ever visted someone in a hospital knows that one can come & go as one pleases & questions are not asked. For medical decison making there is the easy remedy of the Patient Advocacy Form I illustrate above.

    Clearly the canard of the hospital situation is an old one with emotional appeal only; domestic partnerships in those states that address these issue's as well...but that has not stoped the left from using this charade for what appeal it still has.

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  22. On the legal front - What is called a "patient advocacy form" is free & aailiabel online, in most librairies at at most hospitals. It gives the advocate all visitation rights and rights to make medical decisions.

    It actually is SOP for even legally married spouses to get a sign one because they give broader rights than what comes with marriage.

    The hospital visitation myth is a canard It is used specificaly for its emotional appeal; not because it is of any practical/legal consequence.

    Everyone who has ever visted someone in a hospital knows that one can come & go as one pleases & questions are not asked. For medical decison making there is the easy remedy of the Patient Advocacy Form I illustrate above.

    Clearly the canard of the hospital situation is an old one with emotional appeal only; domestic partnerships in those states that address these issue's as well...but that has not stoped the left from using this charade for what appeal it still has.

    ReplyDelete