I know why this is being brought up in the trial. The argument is that the California Marriage Amendment tries to prevent someone being who who they are, or punishes them for being who they are, and is thus unconstitutionally discriminatory. But this isn't the case. The amendment does not prevent anyone from living with, committing to, or simply hooking up with any consenting adult who agrees. It didn't remove domestic partnerships, which California treats as marriage.
We are less able to control what we feel than what we do, but we can control what we do.
That homosexuality isn't a mental illness, or isn't classified as one, does not obligate us to neuter marriage licensing. Marriage is a choice - a voluntary association. However, I will address the testimony anyway.
A social psychologist testified Friday in a trial challenging California's gay marriage ban that leading mental health associations stopped thinking of homosexuality as a mental illness decades ago.The question is - why did they do that? Was it for internal political reasons, or legitimate evaluation of data and experience?
Lawyers for two same-sex couples suing to overturn the voter-enacted ban called University of California, Davis researcher Gregory Herek as an expert witness to bolster their argument that sexual orientation cannot be easily changed.It doesn't matter, because nobody is forcing people to marry. In fact, we keep seeing widely reported studies that the percentage of households in the US that are headed by a married couple is lower than in the past. Also, for various reasons, some men have proclaimed themselves on a "marriage strike" - Google it if you think it is a tiny number. So marriage is optional.
The point is central to the plaintiffs' effort to show that gays deserve the same judicial protection as racial and ethnic minorities.They already have that protection in California. But let's not pretend that behavior is the same as skin color.
Herek said he recently conducted a survey asking people if they decided to be gay, lesbian or bisexual. Eighty-eight percent of the gay men who responded said they had no choice at all about their sexual orientation. The figure was 68 percent for lesbians.Like I said - feelings and attractions are one thing, behavior is a different. We do have choices about our behaviors. If not, most men would be rapists (please, no radical feminist talk that all men are rapists), as most men are attracted to at least some women that do not consent to sex with them. But we can refrain from making passes and refrain from engaging in sex with any given person. People who maintain monogamy or celibacy also do not act on all of their feelings. The examples are endless. We do have a choice in the person with whom we partner. Even if your parents or your cult leader arranges your marriage, they can't force you to get a state license.
This is self reporting anyway - what should we expect people to say? But notice something else... 12 percent of homosexual men and 32 percent of homosexual women indicated they could choose to be heterosexual - even though they probably had no incentive to say so.
Proposition 8 was by definition an extension of embedded social stigmas, he contended.Proposition 8 was mostly a matter of people restoring state marriage licensing to what is in society's interest, and rejecting judicial overreaches. It doesn't stop the personal freedoms of engaging homosexual behavior, from cohabiation, to commitment ceremonies, to pride parades, to sodomy, to holding hands. A federal court striking it down would violate the rights of Californians.
PW: ...a witness said "Being Gay is Not a Choice".
ReplyDeleteNo? Then what is it? How does one explain identical twins that have different "orientations?" If one is "living a lie," which one? Did that twin choose to "live a lie?" How does one explain those who live many years as one "orientation" only to spend the next several years living as a different "orientation?" Were they "living a lie" before or after? Did they choose to "live that lie?"
This basically gets back to PW's point that as humans, we choose our behavior even if we don't choose our predilections. We don't tolerate bullying by considering whether the bully was "born with" or even "chose" that tendency. We don't tolerate drunkenness by considering whether the alcoholic was "born that way."
...their argument that sexual orientation cannot be easily changed.
Smoking and obesity also can't easily be changed. Does that make smokers and the obese "protected classes?" If it did, does charging for heart surgery then discriminate even if it doesn't mention obese and smokers directly? After all, charging for heart surgery is discriminatory in effect since the obese and smokers are far more likely than the slender and non-smokers to have to pay.
The point is central to the plaintiffs' effort to show that gays deserve the same judicial protection as racial and ethnic minorities.
That claim should be raised with the legislature, not the judiciary. The legislature has outlined what groups receive special protections. Allowing the judiciary to rewrite the very laws it is supposed to be interpreting is a violation of the separation of powers and destroys the very concept of the rule of law.
This is yet another irrelevancy, however, since there is no marriage law that requires any statement or investigation into the "orientation" of the applicants. Same-sex "heterosexual" couples have no different rights than same-sex "homosexual" couples.