Comment Policy

Disputes of fact and of opinion are why we are here. We may disagree with you, just as we hope you share your disagreements with us. Being friendly will usually invite friendly replies. We can and will delete otherwise great posts for unseemly profanity.

Comments anywhere on the site -- no matter how old the post -- will show up on the front page as a recent comment and in the comment RSS feeds.

Thursday, July 9, 2009

Incest: The flying spaghetti monster in the debate on marriage

Marriage equality is when each gender and child receive equal recognition of their rights and responsibilities in how each child is created. This can only happen with a commitment from each party that has real follow through from each person who combined to create the child. That commitment is so important in enshrining our rights in our very human capacity to procreate that there is an institution built around that purpose -- Marriage.

Recently in history (meaning the past decade or so) people have contemplated destroying the direct recognition of that purpose, and replace it with recognition of their own purpose. While no doubt a noble cause in and of itself, it doesn't justify the replacement of what marriage means.

And no doubt it is noble. When many conservatives are asked to state their argument for such a replacement they note that children exist in these relationships and point to how it is a great benefit to children if their parents are married. Therefore, we are told, their parents should have marriage available to them.

First, I don't disagree with the argument though I find its application in this matter self-contradictory. Since it takes a man and a woman to create a child, and marriage is available to each man-woman combination, marriage is not being denied to the parents that matter most to a child. But for now lets get to know the great Flying Spaghetti Monster, created(?!) in an effort to illustrate why intelligent design should not be taught as science in schools:

[Read on...]

Henderson stated that both his theory and intelligent design had equal validity, saying

I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence.

Equal time, because the Spaghetti Monster is just as valid as Intelligent Design in its scientific application. One of the key elements here is that no one really believes in the FSM, and its use is purely academic. However, its argument is clear, if "then a miracle occurred" is pervasive in scientific application then it allows in a number of ideas that are clearly unwarranted.

Whether or not this is a good argument against the teaching of Intelligent Design can be discussed in many forums on the Internet, and even in this comment section if the readership wishes. However, one recent commenter demanded that "Unless you can explain why you bring up incestu[o]s marriage, it just sounds like a ugly desperate smear, since few people believe that incestuous marriage is going to be made legal anywhere, and aren't worried about it even if it does."

Incest may seem like a smear for two reasons, the first is that obviously incest is considered taboo, something a number of groups are working to change. Second, probably not as obvious but even more important is that neutering marriage for the sake of homosexuality is all about making marriage into a club of who is cool enough to enter and who is not. Rather than the fact-based approach which recognizes equal rights for everyone who engages in the human mating practice, neutered marriage draws a line which is only as strong as the taboo against the practice denied marriage.

Other Flying Spaghetti Monsters in this debate are Polygamy and even singles, as well as polyamourous marriages (marriage with more than one spouse). There are a number of groups ready to argue that their mutual trust and dependency on each other and the presence of dependents in their care justify their inclusion to get equal access to all of the protections of marriage. Not all of them (including people who are already related but are non-intimate) are taboo, and yet all have the same need for recognition.

Nothing about recognizing that important purpose of marriage equality means that these groups should be denied recognition of their mutual trust and dependency. But should their needs mean that marriage equality -- the quality of each gender's contribution to a child's life and upbringing -- should go unrecognized any more? Marriage may be more than procreation, but that does not mean it is less then the institution which promotes the primal in-tact preservation of family ties.

3 comments,:

  1. That's a point we've been saying over and over again - how can people justify two men or two women marrying but then draw the line there? If two men, why not one man and two women? Three women? A child and adult who "love" each other, ie Mary Kay Letourneau? It logically is an all-or-nothing equation. There have to be boundaries. Marriage is an institution that furthers the procreation of the human race. Love is involved, but it's more than just a celebration of love.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Okay, I'm not beating a dead horse (and in this horse isn't just dead, it's rotted away), but I would like to point out:

    Other Flying Spaghetti Monsters in this debate are Polygamy and even singles, as well as polyamourous marriages (marriage with more than one spouse).

    that you clearly don't know the difference between polygamy and polyamory. polygamy involves marriage. polygamy isn't practiced by anyone in the US because it isn't allowed. polyamory is the same relationship without marriage. plenty of people practice polyamory in the US.

    the more you know . . .

    ReplyDelete
  3. PF, thanks for filling Opine with the arrogance that makes life and sit-coms so entertaining. Its the perfect straight-person in a comedy routing. Blinded by arrogance willing to stumble down the comedic path of folly..

    you clearly don't know the difference between polygamy and polyamory

    It is true that -amory is simply love and -gamy is marriage by etymology. But the etymology is even more distinct on this matter...

    Gamete means mating, an act which the two sexes unite to produce offspring. Gametes are so called because the organelles do the biological execution of what was initiated by the larger organisms -- combining the sexes to produce offspring. This happens with or without a marriage license, but is invariably tied to mating.

    Similarly -amory is just affection or adoration, infatuation or love. It happens with or without marriage, and is not tied to procreation.

    Marriage itself can be tied to either model, one specifying the merging of both sexes, the other being as amorphous as amore itself.

    Add poly next to the word and we see something interesting. Polygamy means multiple marriages or multiple engagements of mating. Polyamourous means multiple spouses in the same relationship (which some argue should also be recognized as marriage).

    In short, implicitly in your remarks by tying marriage to mating you recognize the procreative imperative that marriage is meant to address. I thank you for that. On the flip side is a rejection of the amore model as marriage, where adoration and affection make the marriage.

    polygamy isn't practiced by anyone in the US because it isn't allowed.

    Not to point out where you further stubbed your toe, after the comedic trip and fall, but this is also false. Just note the number of charges in Texas and other places where people are punished for the act of living like they are married whether or not they ask for government recognition.

    ReplyDelete